Episode #5 - Dialogue with others: Expanding tools for effective communication

 

Host: Robert Leckey 

Guest: Tammara Soma

 

Resume

In this episode, Robert Leckey and 2014 Scholar, Tammara Soma, an Assistant Professor at the School of Resource and Environmental Management at Simon Fraser University and co-founder of the Food Systems Lab talk about creating trust-based relationships between the academia and community-based organizations, ensuring accountability in terms of the outcome of the knowledge itself, and about the power of images and storytelling.

Transcript

Robert Leckey
Welcome to the Communications and Sharing Knowledge series of the Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation, Brave Spaces podcast. 

Tammara Soma is an Assistant Professor at the School of Resource and Environmental Management at Simon Fraser University, where she conducts research on issues pertaining to food system planning, community-based research, waste management, and the circular economy. Prior to joining SFU, she was a Postdoctoral Fellow in the Department of Geography and Planning at the University of Toronto, and the Food Equity Coordinator at New College (University of Toronto).  Her dissertation investigates the issue of urban food waste in Indonesia, by exploring the transformation of household food provisioning practices, due to factors such as urbanization, the modern supermarket revolution, the growth of the middle-class, and market liberalization. She is a co-editor of the Routledge Handbook of Food Waste.

She has written for the Huffington Post, Policy Options, and Alternatives Journal. She's frequently interviewed by media, such as the BBC, Global News, the Toronto Star, the Globe and Mail, CBC, and TVO’s Agenda. She is a Joseph Armand Bombardier SSHRC CGS Doctoral Fellow, an International Development Research Centre Doctoral Award recipient, and a SSHRC Top 5 Storyteller finalist, and a Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation scholar from 2014.

Tammara, great to have you here! Can you tell us a little bit about yourself and how communication and knowledge sharing have been central to your work?

Tammara Soma
Absolutely! Thank you so much for having me!  So yes, communication and knowledge sharing is central to my work at Simon Fraser University and also the Food Systems Lab, because as a scholar, I do view myself as a public servant.

In my work I am constantly dealing with complex systems problem. And being a good communicator and being passionate about sharing the knowledge is a key part, I believe, of serving the public. So, at Simon Fraser University, which prides itself as a community-engaged university, I serve as the Researcher-in-Residence of the SFU Community-Engaged Research Initiative. We also call it CERi.  And so, the hallmark of the work that we do at CERi is accessible and engaging knowledge mobilization and supporting inclusive participatory research.

Robert
Just to follow up. Some professors… understanding that we all work in publicly funded institutions, but some take that responsibility as teaching the students in the room in front of them and publishing in scholarly journals.  Can you just say a bit more about how, for you, the public dimension leads you to be reaching outwards more?

Tammara
Absolutely. You know, the public dimension for me… of course, I do a lot of work engaging students, including students outside of my department, outside of my faculty. But I also work a lot with community organizations. In fact, for my work various community food community organizations are the people that I do hope to serve, particularly because many of the issues that I work in the food system, are particularly issues that impact them, issues around food access and food insecurity, issues around food injustice. And so, I'm very passionate about reaching beyond the academic institution level to the public.

Robert
Tammara, when you're mentioning, engaging with communities, and you're talking about issues such as food insecurity, you’re evoking, I think, working with some vulnerable people. How do you create relationships of trust and accountability in the work you do?

Tammara
That's a great question. You know, creating a relationship of trust and accountability can take time and it's important for me, it's important not to rush the building of trust. Because often I find in academia, we're pushed by deadlines, we’re pushed by, you know, the grad rep, the reporting mechanism, and you can't rush that.

And so, creating long-lasting relationships, for me, starts with stating one's intention. So, I state my intention: this is what I hope to do; this is how I hope to serve you. And also maintaining honesty and listening.  And for me also, because, you know, as a researcher, it's not that we're just the expert, but we're also going on a learning journey.

So, being accountable is also like giving credit where credit is due, admitting gaps and mistakes when mistakes are made, and always going through a process of bettering oneself, also as an individual and as a scholar.

Robert
And do you loop back to people you work with? I mean, do they see the final results of your research?

Tammara
Absolutely. I think that one of the biggest issues, especially when it comes to researchers… and I also work in Indonesia and other parts of the world… and so, one of these issues is called like the parachute researcher, where they come, they get what they want and then they just leave. Then they publish in an academic journal because that's what is valued often in academia. But then the people, they don't see any outcome of it, they don't have a report back, a mechanism. And that's something that I'm very passionate about – to make sure that there is accountability in terms of the outcome of the knowledge itself.

Robert
So, you don't see yourself just sort of swooping in to extract data from people?

Tammara
No, absolutely not. In fact, for me, a lot of the participants who work with our projects are, you know, we develop long lasting relationships and we continue to collaborate on various projects together. 

Robert
You spoke, Tammara… you certainly expressed a duty to be engaging with other communities, but can you just elaborate a bit? Why is it so important to foster and participate in, and navigate conversations across different communities and outside the academy?

Tammara
In 2016, when my colleague Belinda Li and I founded the Food Systems Lab, we started to create a space, basically, where we can address complex systems-related issues by bringing very diverse people together, but not just people who agree with each other.  So, we felt it's important to also understand and navigate through competing priorities and competing interests.  

A lot of the work that I do as a professional community planner is dealing and working with community members who may not always agree with one another. And so, for us, we do this by deep engagement, a lot of listening, conflict resolution.  And I think this is important because, as you probably know, increasingly we are polarized as a society judgment comes, right? Judgment comes very quick and fast in social media, one often does not get a second chance. And so, in my work, we try to create a space for people to be vulnerable, to be honest, because being vulnerable, listening and suspending judgment can also allow for spaces of healing and the building of relationships with people that would otherwise not build relationships at all.

Robert
I love what you're talking about. Concretely, how do you foster, how do you sustain space where people can be vulnerable in the way you're mentioning?

Tammara
So, the building of relationship is key, because when people trust that I will give them an ear that I will suspend judgment and just listen. Even though I might disagree with it, even though sometimes their argument or their ideas might actually hurt me personally. But I give them that space to be vulnerable, to be honest, and suspend judgment, just so I can get a glimpse or a sense of like what they feel, how they got to that conclusion and maybe some of the deep-rooted causes of the problem, and some of the fear that then gets transformed into certain attitudes or behaviors.  That's a training that I do for myself, but then I hope to build relationship in that way by suspending judgment in some cases.

Robert
It's fascinating. You've talked about the objectives you're trying to pursue. What specifically are some of the different media or creative platforms that you use when trying to democratize knowledge outside the academy?

Tammara
Oh, that's great. So, I love storytelling. Oh my gosh, I love storytelling! That's why I entered that SSHRC storytellers’ competition.  So, storytelling is something that I grew up learning in my culture. I usually start my class or my presentation with the story.  And I think we all know that storytelling and oral traditions are key teaching tools for many indigenous communities here.

But so, in addition to storytelling, I also, at the Food Systems Lab, we love the multimedia approach. So, we do a lot of filming of our research output. We upload them on YouTube. I participate in a lot of podcasts like this one. And of course, media engagement, magazines, newspapers, and what have you.

But I also do a lot of public speaking for public libraries, schools, for children. And increasingly, I have been doing a lot of speaking to senior groups, because there are on Zoom. They can't really meet up in person in many cases. So, they are doing a lot of lunch & learns, the senior groups here in BC and beyond. So, I'm very passionate about supporting them as they seek to continue education. And I love connecting with seniors.  And of course, a lot of our work are made available and accessible on our website. So many people would actually contact the Food Systems Lab after stumbling on our website. And so, for the listeners out there, you can check foodsystemslab.ca if you want to learn more about our work.

Robert
I've got to say that your website is gorgeous, right? It's an extraordinarily beautiful site. But I find it really intriguing that the combination… I mean, storytelling can sound kind of timeless or ancient, but that you're linking it, that you're using YouTube, it's on the website that you're having lunch & learns over Zoom and so on with seniors… It seems to me a really beautiful use of traditional techniques in the current moment.

Tammara
Oh, thank you so much. And by the way, I want to credit my colleague, Belinda Li, because she was the one that developed the website. So, a credit is where credit is due.

Robert
You've talked... I'm thinking again about trying to make the outputs of your research accessible to communities and individuals or leaders who might be affected by the results. And you already said, oh, you don't get a second chance and you got to build trust, but do you have any further thoughts on some of the challenges in really trying to make your research accessible?

Tammara
There are many challenges, actually, but maybe I'll talk about a few. So, the first one is language.  I was actually honoured one time when an academic told me that my research is something that her grandma would understand and would care about, but she wondered if it was academic enough. You know, it was an academic critique, like, it makes sense, I think my grandma would care about it and she would totally be motivated to do something. But is it academic enough? And I think that's a problem, right? I think that's actually a problem in academia, that attitude of, why are we making it so complicated, in terms of the lack of accessibility of language? So, in general academic writing is largely inaccessible to the public. There's usually a lot of jargon, it's dense. And so, for me, I like to synthesize it and make it more accessible.  Maybe that's also because of my background – coming from Indonesia, having had to learn English as a non-English speaker. So, I know how important it is to have clear and accessible content for myself, in a way.  And also, I do a lot of work to translate my articles into op-eds, shorter blogs, and, for my work in Indonesia, I also present in the Indonesian language and try to write some short pieces in Indonesia. Because, obviously, if I am publishing in an English journal, it's not necessarily going to help the Indonesian people.
Language is definitely one challenge. 

And I will just say one more is the issue of paywall. And I think we all know this, and the thing is, increasingly, research grants, like SSHRC will allow us to set aside money to make our paper open-access, but some of the fees are so egregious that, personally, I would rather use that money to support and pay for more students or even pay more community participants. It's just, yeah, it's unreasonable.

Robert
It's thousands of dollars and you look and you say, this could be… what else could I do with that money, right?

Tammara
Yeah. One of them I saw was $11,000 US.

Robert
Whoa! Your comments about language, it's really interesting. It reminds me quite early in my career, the editor of an international journal gently told me, when returning the peer reviews, that I should remember that there would be lots of readers for whom English was not the first language. And I don't always live up to that, but it's a good reminder to communicate more simply than we often do.

Can you think… you're clearly super intentional and committed to trying to democratize knowledge. And I wonder if there's an example where you've really sensed the meaningful impact from doing so?

Tammara
Yeah, that is so important, particularly important in the work that I'm currently doing.
I just kind of want to tackle this issue of democratization of knowledge, because democratizing knowledge can help empower communities. And I would also argue that a shift – and I would caveat this with, where appropriate, because it's not always appropriate – on democratizing the idea of who is the expert.

So, in my work, we receive a funding from the SSHRC, New Frontiers grant for a photovoice citizens science food asset project, working with diverse community members in Vancouver, Port Alberni, and with the Kitselas First Nation.

Robert
Could you just repeat once more the name of the initiative?

Tammara
Oh yes. So, it's a SSHRC New Frontiers-funded grant on a photovoice citizen science food asset project, and we conducted this project in the City of Vancouver. Yes, photovoice. Do you know what photovoice is? Maybe I should explain to the listener? 

Robert
Please tell us just a bit more. 

Tammara
Okay. Photovoice is actually very simple. So, it's, basically, photography and storytelling. And so, connecting the two together. So, citizen scientists or participants will take photos, depending on the research question, depending on the project itself. For example, in our case – food assets, food places, and spaces, and culture, you know, cultural food assets that matter to them, that is meaningful to them. They would take photos of that and then we would connect and then we would go through the photos, because there's that saying right, a photo is worth a thousand words. Something like that. Exactly. So, it's a really beautiful and very fun research approach to do. 

And so, in this particular project, the citizen scientists are the experts. So, they have a say in the research outcome, research design, and we as researchers facilitate training in photography, but we learn from the citizen scientists about the key food sites, the key food knowledge, and key food assets that are critical for their foods, for their food system resiliency.  And so, it was really meaningful to see so many of the citizen scientists feeling empowered to be part of the research process. And that is, actually, the power of democratising knowledge. 

And I would just say one thing is that often… I don't know about you, but sometimes for me and for others, maybe you feel relief when a study is done. But in fact, in this particular case, so many of the citizen scientists in the photo voice project actually asked me and wished for it to be continued. So, I think that it's important to have democratized knowledge in that way, but also to make sure that there's a medium of outcome that will then make the citizen scientists proud. And in this case, we have photo books that are available in the Food Systems Lab website, to be viewed.

Robert
It sounds to me like you're really empowering people to participate in, to share knowledge on their part. I mean, it just sounds like a completely different level from having people sit in a focus group or do a sort of qualitative interview. It sounds very, very empowering. 

Tammara
Well, that's kind of the purpose of it.  But I will definitely say that in the Lab, how we work with even focus groups and qualitative interview is that we give it our all, we give 100%, and always we try to honor and recognize the fact that many of the participants who are busy are spending their time to support research. And so, because of that, we try to show our appreciation as much as we can through our mannerism, through our behavior, and through thanking, thanking them so much. And of course, paying them when it's a lot of work.

Robert
You were quite deliberate a moment ago. You put in a caveat about, sort of, redefining who the expert was, where appropriate. You clearly value communities’ expertise, but what is the space that only the university-trained expert nonetheless needs to occupy? Or, what did you mean by that boundary? 

Tammara
When it comes to this kind of caveat of “where appropriate,” in terms of democratizing knowledge, I think that, in the case of the pandemic or in the case of health science, not everyone will be the expert in medicine or health science. So, I think it's important to also kind of make sure that we do listen to the experts. But at the same time, I actually watched something on Netflix, which, again, shows the power of democratising science or knowledge. There's a show where the doctor, who is a New York times columnist, she would be faced, and she would hear from all around the world and from around the United States of diseases or illnesses that are very hard to pinpoint. And sometimes it would stumble doctors, you know? And so, what she would do is she would actually post it on New York Times. Post a video of the person dealing with the illness and then kind of democratize it by saying like, “Hey, everyone around the world. What do you think is the problem here?” And then from that, she uses her medical training to actually kind of narrow down some interesting possibilities that would otherwise not have been thought before. So, I think there's a tool for that.  But again, in the case of the pandemic, not everyone can be experts.  

Robert
No. Agreed. You've got such a nuanced perspective on these issues. If you could recommend a book or article or video or podcast that has informed your views, that you would recommend to us, what would that be?

Tammara
Oh, my goodness. This is exciting.  

Robert
One or more.

Tammara
One or more. I will ask to recommend two, if that's okay. So, okay. The first is the book by, I think, you know him, 2016 Trudeau Scholar, Jesse Thistle, “From the Ashes.” My goodness! It is a book that is at once heartbreaking and hopeful.  And it is so amazing to see someone who faced so much hardship and struggle and yet worked so hard to accomplish so much. So, that book has motivated me to do more work on decolonizing the food system. And actually, my 14-year-old son just finished Jesse's book, and, he can't believe that I actually know Jesse. So he was like, what? You know, Jesse Thistle? I'm like, yes, I do!

Valerie
It is an extraordinary testimony.

Tammara
Absolutely. So, yeah, he's a hero in our house. And the next one… so the next one is a documentary on Netflix called “Salam” about the life of Dr. Abdus Salaam, who is the first Muslim Nobel prize winner in physics. And so, he came from an impoverished family, won a scholarship to study abroad in UK.  He was persecuted because of his faith by his country. And yet even through the persecution and the struggles, he was so passionate about serving the people. And so, when he won the Nobel prize in physics, he used his Nobel prize to build the international center for theoretical physics and devoted his cause to train scientists from the Global South. And so, I hope that one day I might have the opportunity to do the same. So yeah, those two.

Robert
That's wonderful. Tammara Soma, it's been such a pleasure speaking with you today. Thank you so much.

Tammara
Thank you so much! Have a great day!